Comments: The dog trainer's trainer

“Why is it such a big thing to try and compare training methods in such an open antagonistic way. Are you just trying to promote for monetary gain. In both cases both men talk about dominance if you watch TED you tube on Ian Dunbar "who's the daddy". I foster care animals and come from a background of working with dangerous large animals. Animals that you cannot discipline in a physical manner yet i have gained insight in dog behavior from both Millan and Dunbar. One way or the other is not the be all end all it is situational, I haved walked into a strange house to take a dog away because the animal is out of control in that environment, and found the animal lunging at me trying to bite me which method did I use to get the animal under control? The one that worked!!! PS. I did not touch the animal at all but still used dominant posturing to achieve what I needed. ” — karl, Nov 27 2008

“Somebody is jealous or what??” — deirdre, Nov 15 2008

“If Mr Dunbar's is a quiet success, why does he need to make such a superficial criticism of Ceasar's method?
I have not heard Ceasar criticising Mr Dunbar's
I've seen him, and I find him an amazing person and his method simply works.

It is better to simply work efficiently and respecting your colleagues. Some have talent, some both education and talent, some others simply education. ” — isa37_rodriguez, Nov 05 2008

“Why?????? Ian and Cesar are two different type of trainers. Ian is great and Cesar give some dogs a chance at a good life. So why do people want to put vs between their names. Always competition. No reason for it. We should be learning from both and many other trainers. ” — kaygodogtrai..., Oct 29 2008

“Listen to Ian Dunbar's TED talk:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ian_dunbar_on_dog_friendly_dog_training.html
” — notvalid, Sep 22 2008

“Now that is just a nasty trick, taking a snippet out of context like that and just leaving it hanging.
Maybe people will be curious and read the book to find out what Dr. Dunbar said in full.

Anyway, no one really every knows for sure what another being is thinking or why they do the things they do. We cannot even make that kind of assumption with other humans let alone another species. To think otherwise is quite presumptuous.

The best we can do is observe and hypothesize. I believe Dr. Dunbar's point is when you understand how to change behavior through training/conditioning it doesn't matter WHY a dog does something as long as you know how to teach him what you'd like him to instead, which is easy with a basic understanding of learning. The why is infinitely interesting but can virtually never be proven. Anyone who says with 100% certainty that they know the mind of another is delusional at worst or pulling your leg at best.

” — eastham, Sep 09 2008

“Thanks to the person that got this article cleaned up and the sidebar changed to some actually useful information.” — darkerphoenix, Sep 09 2008

“Extract from interview with Ian Dunbar on Taking the Lead website (http://www.ttlntl.co.uk/2/ChatHist/Ian%20Dunbar.htm):

[heartpups]
ok, in a multiple dog household - 2 or 3 gang up on one ....... no blood shed but lots of screaming - why?

[IanDunbar]
WHY? Who knows? I could give you loads of ideas but we never really know WHY dogs do things

Title of book by Dr. Ian Dunbar:

"Dog Behaviour: Why Dogs Do What They Do" ISBN-13: 978-0866228008

Ummmm?” — confused, Sep 09 2008

“"Positive" trainers are "negative" thinkers. Is it very sad but it is true, all of them are full of anger and defensive pessimism. They cannot give credit to successful colleagues and they live to attack each other. Unfortunately APDT members are becoming bitter individuals who cannot see beyond reality. They are brain washed as soon as they join the association (by reading Nicole Wilde and Karen Pryor's books) and taught to become pigeons (don't you dare to disagree with the "science"). Dunbar and friends ignore the fact that we are in America and we have the freedom to decide how we want to conduct our business. Yes, Cesar Millan techniques are wrong and outdated, so what? just move on and do something "positive" for animals. ” — bob99, Sep 08 2008

“It should be noted at this point in the conversation, the entire article (including the sidebar) has now been changed.

Thank you for removing almost all of the anti-Cesar propaganda. It told us very little about Ian's philosophies and history, but spoke volumes about the the nasty side of dog training politics.

Dog "training" has indeed come a long way, and I've studied most of the methods in my 52 years. I use an eclectic mix depending upon what I'm trying to achieve with a given dog within a given moment, and overall.

We are still talking about two different areas when we discuss training vs rehab, operant conditioning vs social learning...while keeping in mind classical conditioning is an ever present factor which also impacts a dog's psychology, behavior, and choice. ” — chasorg, Sep 03 2008

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